Whether you're expecting a baby boy or have just welcomed your new little guy into the world, you have an important decision to make before you take your son home: whether to circumcise him.
Male circumcision is the removal of some or all of the foreskin (prepuce) from the penis. The word "circumcision" comes from Latin circum (meaning "around") and cædere (meaning "to cut").
Approximately 55% to 65% of all newborn boys are circumcised in the United States each year, though this rate varies by region (western states have the lowest rates and the north central region has the highest). 87% of all 20-24yo males born in US have been circumcised. From the differences in circumcision rates by race, one can infer that over 90% of all 20-24yo white males born in US have been circumcised. (Circumcision data: Wallerstein)
The procedure is much more widespread in the United States, Canada, and the Middle East than in Asia, South America, Central America, and most of Europe, where it's uncommon.
Parents who choose circumcision often do so based on religious beliefs, concerns about hygiene, or cultural or social reasons, such as the wish to have their son look like other men in the family.
There is controversy regarding circumcision. Arguments that have been raised in favor of circumcision include that it provides important health advantages which outweigh the risks, has no substantial effects on sexual function, has a low complication rate when carried out by an experienced physician, and is best performed during the neonatal period. The World Health Organization, the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention state that evidence indicates male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile-vaginal sex, but also state that circumcision only provides minimal protection and should not replace other interventions to prevent transmission of HIV.
Those raised in opposition to circumcision include that it adversely affects penile function and sexual pleasure, is justified by medical myths, is extremely painful, and is a violation of human rights.
There are three main reasons for circumcision but doctors disgree on how promptly circumcision should be offered as the treatment. Some see it as a last resort; others will suggest it sooner.
Phimosis In babies, the foreskin and the glans develop as one, only separating during childhood. As a result the infant foreskin is frequently tight and inelastic. Some doctors may suggest circumcision in these circumstances. Others say that generally the foreskin loosens by the age of three and that true phymiosis, which affects fewer than 1% of boys, is very rare before the age of five.
If possible, watchful waiting is sensible in suspected phimosis because the vast majority of foreskins loosen themselves naturally. While only 4% of baby boys have a retractable foreskin, 98-99% of 18 year-olds do. The figures are from the British Medical Journal, 1993, the same article that revealed that many surgeons simply cannot tell the difference between an everyday tight foreskin and true phimosis.
Balanitis In Balanitis the glans and/or the foreskin become inflamed. It can affect men of all ages including boys (most commonly around the age of three or four).
Poor hygiene, a tight foreskin), skin disorders allergy to products such as soap or washing powder or to the latex or spermicides in condoms can all damage the skin and, if this becomes infected, balantitis can develop. Balanitis is not transmitted sexually but a bacteria called candida which can cause it is. Sex may also damage the skin. It is best avoided by keeping the penis clean, especially under the foreskin but in recurrent cases circumcision might be offered.
In adults it may be offered as a treatment if a tight foreskin is making sex painful.
More often than not the reason we get our babies circumcised is so that they look like every other boy/man in their family/school/sports team/locker room.
I have two sons and I had both my sons circumcised and if I were to have more sons (which I'm not) I would have them all circumcised too.
As a grown sexually active woman, I can say that I don’t like the look of an uncircumcised penis. I couldn’t imagine having oral sex with a man who had to pull back a foreskin. The thought of it is disgusting to me. That may incense some folks, especially if your husband or children are not circumcised, but that’s why we each get to choose for our children whether or not we want to have them circumcised. I don’t have any friends or relatives that have NOT gotten their sons circumcised. Everyone I know has circumcised sons.
Did you have your sons circumcised, and if not, why not?
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38 minutes ago

Interesting post. I did not circumcise my son, mostly because I couldn't bear having him go through the pain of it. I know he'd still have been very young but I just couldn't go through with it. I'm trying to teach him proper hygiene, though so we can hopefully avoid any problems from occurring. My parents are very pro-circumcision and were disappointed in my decision, but like you said, it's my (and my husband's) choice.
ReplyDeleteI was circumcised at birth and I do not like being circumcised. I dislike it so much that I am restoring my foreskin. I encounter a lot of young men who are upset with their parents because their parents had part of their sex organ removed by circumcision. These young men, like me, would have preferred to have their whole penis. After all, it is our body, not our parents.
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ReplyDelete"My" choice??...
ReplyDeleteNo, it´s not my choice.
Permanent alteration of my child´s genitals is MY CHILD´S choice, regardless if he is a boy (boys are not protected from genital mutilation in the U.S) or a girl (girls ARE protected from such mutilations).
The only thing I can do is to protect him from harm, but in ways that are ethical and respectful of his body. Not everything is ethical when it comes to protecting your son. For example, I would definitely NOT have his ears removed to protect him from ear infections, ear tearings, ear rashes... or just to avoid having to wash his ears.
My son can learn to clean himself and have safe sex, because he will be an intelligent man. Not a man that needs amputation for protection.
Besides, I think you´ve never seen a intact penis... If you were to give a man oral sex, chances are his penis will already be ERECT and stiff by the time you get to see it. That means the foreskin will already have pulled back on its own - and you can hardly tell the difference from a cut penis by sight... You can tell it by touch though, when you notice his member is softer and more sensitive. And especially if you were lucky enough to have actual sex with an intact penis and notice how it feels much better for you, too.
(www.sexasnatureintendedit.com)
But that´s beyond the point, because having a baby´s genitals amputated and altered to fit YOUR sexual preferences is something that just seems... disturbing.
How about if someone else had preferred a particular look to YOUR genitals and decided to slice your skin a certain way because of that? Would this be okay with you?
ReplyDeleteI doubt it.
There are a lot of sick reasons to mutilate a child's genitals. A parent's cosmetic preference is one of the sickest.
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ReplyDeleteI find it very sad that you could so grossly misinformed on such an abusive act and that you have decided to push these misconceptions onto other parents! Please do some real research into the matter before posting about this subject again.
ReplyDeleteJust because something is common practise in your society, doesn't mean it is the right decision to make.
The thought that you had a procedure performed on your children based on your own sexual preference is rather quites sickening. Maybe you should seek psychological help to sort out your own issues before they affect more children out there.
I don't have a son, but I'm married to a man who isn't circumcised - he's British & it's not really something they do in the UK. I'm guessing by your oral sex comment that you've never actually come into contact with an uncircumcised penis because, uh, I've never to "pull back" anything. Eww.
ReplyDeleteMy general feeling is that a penis is a penis, and I care more about whether or not it can give me an orgasm than how "pretty" I find it. (And just for the record, go watch some of the more obscure/indie movies that Ewan McGregor & Jude Law have done where they've gone full frontal. Trust me, the unsnipped guys ain't half-bad looking.)
I'm guessing that your views on circumcision are based largely on geography - circumcision seems to be far more common in the South. I grew up in Mississippi and I remember in high school that there was ONE guy who wasn't circumcised, and the whole school knew about it because of some jackass teenage boys who saw him in the locker room & repeated it to everybody.
If I ever have a son, I'm leaving the decision of whether or not to circumcise up to my husband. I don't have the equipment, I don't know what it feels like, I figure he has a better frame of reference to make an informed decision. But I'm guessing we'll most likely leave him uncut. I just don't really see the need for it other than aesthetics, which is kind of a silly reason to perform surgery on an infant.
I believe in choice.....as in the it is the choice of the PENIS OWNER. Seriously- our world is so screwey when you think about it. Who the hell gives us the right to make such monumental decisions for our children
ReplyDeleteI am against genital mutilation.
I didn't make a decision for my sons based on my sexual preference for uncircumcised penis. I made it based on the fact that most men in Amercian society are circumcised and I never want my boys to feel out of place or different/look different.
ReplyDeleteLots of ppl talk about not wanting to mutilate anybody's body parts until they are old enough to make the decision themselves but moms don't mind poking holes in their daughter's ears before they are old enough to decide if they want holes in their ears. I know one is a little more severe than the other but the principal is the same. Statistics show MOST white American boys ARE circumcised. My boys are too.
And I have seen an intact penis.
That is strange the you are disgusted by normal male genitalia. What do you think of women's? I am definitely heterosexual but I am not DISGUSTED by the idea of oral sex with the moist folds of skin that women have.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the other poster, you obviously have never seen an uncircumcised male. I didn't notice my husband wasn't circumcised for several weeks. There is nothing to "pull back" if the man is erect.
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ReplyDeleteMy father decided to have me mutilated at birth and I will forever hate him for it. The fact of the matter is that circumcision has left me feeling sexually deprived and less than a complete man. My fiance, who is a British woman, has never once seen a circumcised man in her life, until she met me. Luckily for her I had already gone through two and a half years of wearing a device on my schlong to restore my foreskin, so she could be exposed to a more anatomically correct penis. Even so, I'll never be as sensitive as a truly intact man, and for that I'm still going through a grieving process for my missing foreskin.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you are grossly misinformed about the "most men" thing. The circumcision rate is down to roughly half and is continuing to decline as we find out more about the physical and psychological trauma that circumcision causes, as well as the sexual dysfunction it causes later in life. Some states, such as California and Washington (and pretty much all of the west coast states) have circumcision rates around 20%. It's largely become an eastern thing.
No other nation besides the US does this heinous act for non-religious purposes (of course, that's just one of the many problems with this crappy country, but don't get me started on that tangent). Circumcision is a sick thing to do to a child, be it a male, female, or intersexed child.
Oh most American WHITE boys are circumcised, so your sons have to be too. That makes sense, glad you cleared that up. OMG
ReplyDeleteI will put money on the bet that one day you will ask your boys..."and if so and so jumped off a bridge would you do it too?", just because "most white american boys" are circumcised doesn't mean they SHOULD be!!! And you made it quite clear your sexual preferences were a part of your decision, own it. And you should look at the stats for younger boys because more and more boys are being left intact, parents are starting to THINK about what they are doing to their sons! well some of them anyway...
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ReplyDelete"I didn't make a decision for my sons based on my sexual preference for uncircumcised penis."
ReplyDeleteBullcrap - this was what you said:
"As a grown sexually active woman, I can say that I don’t like the look of an uncircumcised penis. I couldn’t imagine having oral sex with a man who had to pull back a foreskin. The thought of it is disgusting to me."
So, ultimately, cosmetics is *exactly* why you cut your babies - because the thought of a NORMAL penis is 'disgusting' to you. And THAT'S the disgusting part.
"I made it based on the fact that most men in Amercian society are circumcised and I never want my boys to feel out of place or different/look different."
Actually, the backward/barbaric tradition of cutting is changing. Soon, mutilated men will be in the minority. As they should have been from the beginning. American society has stupidly been conditioned to think that a cut penis is normal. It's not.
So I'll ask again - How about if someone else had preferred a particular look to YOUR genitals and decided to slice your skin a certain way because of that? Would this be okay with you?
Honey by the time your sons are teenagers they're going to be the minority. Circumcision rates in the U.S. keep falling, just look at the West Coast. If we're talking world wide, they already are the minority. 80+% of the world is INTACT and they don't have issues.
ReplyDeleteI bet you didn't know 16 states don't even cover circumcision under medicaid. WHY? - Because it's defined as a cosmetic surgery that isn't medically necessary. Which is the truth.
Your attitude towards INTACT men is completely disgusting too. God/Nature made man with a foreskin for a reason. All male mammals have foreskin, but we're not cutting off dog's, cat's, horses', elephants', etc.. foreskins now are we?
I PREFER INTACT men - not a mutilated penis with scarring, discoloration, malformation, etc...
What makes you think your son's future wife is going to appreciate that decision?
I'm not happy with my husband's circumcised penis. His mother knows that too - and I'm highly pissed off.
I just honestly don't see how a penis- in its natural form is "disgusting." So, please explain to me how an INTACT penis is disgusting.... Anything other than- is mutilation. Especially on non-consenting children.
How do you know you don't like "uncircumcised" penises? Have you had sex with an INTACT man? I have... and it's absolutely wonderful. They don't have ED problems, premature ejaculation and are definitely more sensual.
I suggest you open you mind a little bit more.... People like you make the U.S. a miserable place to live/visit. I know I'm fed up with the nasty attitudes of a lot of fellow Americans. They just aren't happy with the way thy are so they have to keep getting cosmetic surgery or even doing it to their children! Very sad.
...and NO I did not have my son circumcised. That's his decision, not mine.... HIS body, HIS choice. I'm not intruding into my son's sex life. What he chooses to do with his penis when he gets older is his business. Most of my friends, personally and online kept their sons INTACT.
I'm not normally a comment deleter but I deleted the comment that accused me of wanting to have oral sex with my sons. That's just fucking ridiculous and you don't have to get stupid about it to make a point. You can say how you feel about it without getting personal.
ReplyDeleteI knew when I posted this that all the "intact" defenders would come & comment and most of the ppl who have circumcised their kids would lurk and be quiet for fear of someone being rude. But y'all know I DGAF what ppl think about me. This is my blog and if you are 'disturbed' by what I post & say on here.... GTFO. You don't have to be here.
Otherwise, I appreciate all your comments.
Yeah, you're not going to care if your sons decide to sue your ass off, are you? (New laws allow men ages 18 to 21 to sue both their parents and their circumcising doctors for punitive damages due to an unnecessary circumcision).
ReplyDeleteSo are you going to give your daughters bikini waxes too? I'm not at all concerned about my son's sexual vanity. I'm disturbed that you are. How will you explain that to him? Will you really give him the blowjob argument that you gave here? Be prepared for him to poke his eyes out!
ReplyDeleteI left my son's penis alone because it's not mine to alter. If he wants to be circumcised later in life, he can opt for that. At least then he'll have access to Motrin or morphine.
circumcision =/= ear piercing
ReplyDeleteThose of us who leave our sons intact generally wait until our children are old enough to want pierced ears. If they change their minds, then we just take the earrings out. That's a silly comparison.
There is a lot to be said on this post... and thankfully many insightful comments have already been made. I'll just note a few:
ReplyDeleteThe question should be re-phrased as "whether or not you will keep your son intact" as this is the way all mammals come into the world and it is normal to human beings to retain their basic human right to genital integrity.
The prepuce organ is one present on both male and female human beings. It is often nicknamed "foreskin" in men and "clitoral hood" in women.
It serves MANY important functions: http://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/functions-of-foreskin-purposes-of.html
As far as anyone needing to be circumcised due to a 'tight' foreskin - this is complete and utter myth. Please see, "The Phony Phimosis Diagnosis" http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/phony-phimosis-diagnosis.html
For much more information on the prepuce, intact care, and circumcision see: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html
What is your opinion on female circ?
ReplyDeleteIf the thought of that disgusts you and you couldn't imagine having it done to you or inflicting it on your daughter, WHY is it ok to do it to your son?
IT should NOT be the parents choice, you don't OWN the penis, nor have to live with the consequences of being cut
Haven't read through the comments, but interesting post. My son most likely will be because my husband wants it done and is putting his foot down on the subject. Thankfully he was born too big and we have to wait until he's 6 months old. I thought I was gonna be ok with it before he was born... but no. I'm not. I'm dreading the day he takes him in :-(
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about your comment about "most white boys are circumcised" the more it bugs me. So now we know what is important to you, that your son isn't confused with the filthy foreigners and brown people who don't circumcise. Not to mention all types of animals like goats, pigs, dogs, cats, etc who also possess the "disgusting" foreskin. No, your son is superior. I hope you didn't mean it like that. I'm afraid you did though, secretly, a little bit, deep down, or maybe not even that deep.
ReplyDelete"that’s why we each get to choose for our children whether or not we want to have them circumcised"
ReplyDeleteWe should not get to choose to perform cosmetic surgery on infants. How about letting your sons decide whether or not they want to be circumcised.
Circumcision is genital mutilation performed with little or no anesthesia on an unconsenting minor. Wrong on so many levels.
my dad is not circumcised, my husband is and my son is not. simply: it's not my body. yes, my daughters have pierced ears, a pierced nose and a bellybutton, too. they made their own decisions. my kids are each individuals. they don't look exactly like anyone else, nor do they act exactly like anyone else. i wouldn't opt to remove my daughter's breasts for fear of breast cancer some day.
ReplyDeleteI usually find that people who make the decision for their son to circumcise...well, it's based on ignorance. Had they done the research, more than likely, they would have chosen differently.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was pregnant, my midwife asked me if I was going to circumcise. I didn't know it was a choice. Growing up in America, that was all I knew. So I researched it (and watched a video of it) and decided there is no way I would ever do that to my child that I am supposed to protect from all harm.
We need to get the word out there...sons don't have to look like their fathers. All we have to tell them is "Dad's parents did it based on the information during that time period."
Hopefully, we have (and are continuing) to evolve.
Regarding a mother's comment about her sexual preference impacting what she does with her sons' penises... Jamie's take on this was pretty entertaining (and spot on). He has a colorful sense of humor, but also a lot of wise things to say:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/circumcision-information-take-3.html
On the statistics mentioned above - they need a little updating. Currently, 89% of the men (adult men) in the world are intact. 91% of baby boys born in Canada, and 51% of baby boys born in the United States remain intact from birth (2008 circumcision statistics). Therefore, it is very clear that the majority of men (and women) are intact both here at 'home' and around the globe.
DrMomma.org has some great Intact Awareness Cards if anyone would like some -
http://www.facebook.com/peacefulparenting?v=photos&ref=ts#!/photo.php?pid=5067032&id=202794322670
My 5 1/2 year old WHITE son is not circumcised. My 3 1/2 year old white daughter does not have her ears pierced. In fact, many parents see circumcision as a bodily integrity issue, and therefore logically extend that issue to whether they have the right to change anything about their children's bodies that isn't medically necessary. Since neither piercings nor routine circumcision fits that criteria many of us don't have either done to our babies.
ReplyDeleteMy theory is that as this most recent generation of boys starts getting old enough to spend time online they are going to come across blog posts such as this one, articles, and comments on discussion boards. They're going to realize that something very disturbing is done to American boys and some of them are going to realize that it was done to them. That's exactly what happened to my husband. He had no idea that anything was ripped from his penis until he read a thread on a computer board. Now he positively abhors circumcision and it's caused long-term damage to his relationship with his parents. Circumcision is wrong. Cutting off part of another person's genitals is wrong. End of story.
I live in a world surround by males. We have had many a conversation about the differences in female and male locker rooms. It is a fully fifty-fifty split in their opinions.
ReplyDeleteAs they have shared with me, rarely do guys 'check each other out' unless a guy falls into the John Holmes range. (Rare) Women on the other hand - stare, critic, and bash other females about their breast and public hair appearance (as well as other parts of the anatomy). So would you advocate for females to alter their bodies at birth so that they can conform to some unwritten (and unrealistic) expectation?
Penises are not the most attractive part of the male anatomy, neither is the vulva. Would you want to trim your daughters labia so it would make it 'prettier'?
Long run - I left my sons intact. It is not MY decision to alter HIS body. NOT MY DECISION TO SEVERE A PIECE OF HIS FLESH!!!
Just like my daughters - they made the choice to pierce their ears...not me.
Oh yes, my sons are WHITE, and live a quite 'comfortable' lifestyle....and have ALL of their body parts.
ReplyDeleteMK - legally, if you are in the United States, you (as birth mother) have final legal say over whether your son remains intact or not. You can put your foot down too, and protect him - he's YOUR baby.
ReplyDeleteIf your husband NEEDS his penis to 'match' his son's (although I've yet to see an adult penis that even remotely resembles a child's penis) he could look into restoration and enhance his own experience in the process. :)
"Restoration: The Uncircumcising of Men":
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/restoration-uncircumcising-of-men.html
For further information on how male circumcision also hurts women, these are some well written articles and videos by professionals in the fields of health, sexuality, and psychology:
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/07/how-male-circumcision-impacts-women.html
Too many moms were in your shoes and gave in, and regretted it for a lifetime. You may be interested in some of their stories before you decide what to do -
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/i-circumcised-my-son-healing-from.html
I have a son. He is intact. Why didn't I have him cut? First and foremost I'd like my son to have a larger chance at living a long life. By performing this utterly unnecessary procedure I increase his chance of death as an infant. That reason alone should be enough to make any mother or father stand up for thier son's human rights. Are you willing to risk thier lives for this. Can you imagine how the poor parents feel who have lost thier precious babies because of circumcision. So I also left my son intact as a memorial to those precious babies and out of respect to those parents who are devestated. And thus I ask why would I have him cut, there is no reason that is worth risking his life. There are a multitude of other reasons but to me these are dwarfed by this simple fact.
ReplyDeleteYou said "I made it based on the fact that most men in Amercian society are circumcised and I never want my boys to feel out of place or different/look different."
based on that thinking this mass atrocity would never end. It takes brave people to stand up against crimes against human rights.
And I also think piercing a child's ears before they can make that decision with full mental capabilities is wrong too.
Oh how I love reading people uneducated about a topic write their ass off about it. I feel so sorry for your sons. Would be nice if they had a more open-minded mother who would have done her research instead of doing what everyone else is doing.
ReplyDelete@ MK - PLEASE watch a circumcision video. YOu will decide to do everything that you can to protect your son from the torture and mutilation that your husband is proposing.
ReplyDelete@ Peggy Sue - get educated. You have made a mistake. Learn from it and save your grandsons.
MK - all it takes is one parent to say NO and the hospital/doctor's office can't do it.
ReplyDeleteDo you really want to take your son's choice away? I understand your husband had his choice taken away, but is it really justified to keep that going on? I really don't see how that makes it "right."
Please let any of us know if you would like VALID information on circumcision and what you can do to prevent that from happening. Educating yourself is the best thing you can do. We can provide information - but the decision is up to you.
I did not have my son circumcised. The primary reason is because it is simply not done where I live. It is see as barbaric to do it to defenseless newborns, and cosmetic surgery to perform on adults. Unless somebody has moved here, from somewhere that it is commonly performed, it is only ever done for religious reasons, and even then, the parents have to take the child out of the province if they want it done by a professional, because doctors here refuse. The way most people regard the mutilation of girls' genitals in Africa, is how infant male circumcision is viewed where I live. So, I guess, to reiterate, we did not choose to get our son circumcised, because there is nothing to choose, it just isn't done.
ReplyDeleteMy boys are White and American and they are intact. My husband is circumcised, but after reading up on it and figuring out it is as unnecessary and painful as it is, he said 'no way'. For the record, in the Western US where we lived, it's pretty much 50/50 (as I noticed among my friends, at the pool, changing rooms...).
ReplyDeleteNow we live abroad and no one is cut (except for some Americans/Jews/Muslims/Filipinos/Koreans) and the thought of cutting a normal part of the penis off a newborn 'just because' is crazy talk. As it should be.
Also, by your blowjob comments, you have no idea about about the normal male anatomy! The foreskin retracts on its own when the penis is erect! LOL
ReplyDeleteFunny but kind of sad that one would be so ignorant of sex as nature meant it to be. :(
"Whether you're expecting a baby boy"
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that we consider cutting baby boys, but (at least in this country most people) would never dream of doing that to a baby girl?
I'm glad I had a boy so I never had to decide whether or not to have my baby's clitoris removed.
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ReplyDeleteRegarding pulling back the foreskin:
ReplyDeleteNo one pulls it back. It pulls ITSELF back. It's actually pretty cool, and useful...
And if you didn't know this, then you don't know the actual mechanics of natural sex, and are therefore unqualified to make that decision.
(Not that anyone else should make the decision but the man himself...)
Look, Anonymous, we have the truth on our side. Just cursing like that, with no actual content, makes us all look bad. Please find some other place to act, um, uncouth.
ReplyDeleteThose that mentioned it (thanks)... I have seen the video's. Like I said, I don't want it done at all. I didn't know that they have to have my ok... that's gonna be a problem lol because I can't give it. I'm hoping he'll change his mind in the next few months. Its become a major issue here though. I wish it was only the matching thing so I could just smack him over the head with how dumb that is.. but he knows one guy who had a bad experience that was completely his own fault and is using it as an excuse to say that its safer to have it done. :-/
ReplyDeleteMy first love was intact. He was also regularly talked about at school - because had "such a big ****." Many of those envious guys would probably have had just as substantial members if their parents had left them the way God made them. I've talked openly about this subject with many men, and across the board, when they feel secure, the cut men will admit to missing their prepuce.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it's important for us ladies to help our men out a little - you don't need stress how much better the intact men are, and how lacking the cut men are. You don't need to stoop to crude, detailed insults, even when people spreading misinformation do. My cut husband does as much for me as that intact man did, in terms of pleasure; Though he does say that he wishes, for his own sake if not mine, that he had not been cut.
I think that when you start attacking people like Peggy Sue and the circumcised man she is married to (who agreed to this cosmetic surgery for his sons), you are threatening them as parents and, her husband, as a man. You are telling him he is not and can't be good enough sexually, and especially in our culture that puts so much emphasis on men's sexual vitality, that is a huge criticism. Lets offer information, guidance, and support. Lets build up the confidence of these cut men, so that the idea of leaving the next generation intact doesn't threaten the masculinity of the former. Spread the love, not just physically by not infringing on your sons basic human rights, but in the words you choose to use. What helps us most, ans subsequently helps the boys in the world most, is intelligent, patient dialogue. Among other things, Peggy Sue and her husband need to know that we will not condemn them for having made this uninformed choice in the past, that we do not think less of her husband surgically altered self or question his masculinity as a result of it, and that it's ok to change her mind and not cut future sons - that her first son may miss his prepuce, but he will most likely forgive his parents eventually, especially if they apologize.
Anonymous, you can express your outrage in a more constructive manner. Outright rudeness, and vulgarity doesn't help our cause!
ReplyDeleteAs a doula, I have only worked with one family that, after being being fully informed (included more accurate statistics than Peggy Sue seems to have had access to), still chose to have this unnecessary cosmetic surgery performed on their son. And they weren't even among the Jews I've worked with! I tend to think of this as a brilliant sign that our culture is moving in a positive, loving direction.
ReplyDeleteMK you can ABSOLUTELY put your foot down! As long as you make it known to the doctors that they will have a lawsuit on their hands if any of them so much as retracts your son's foreskin, that should be enough! In the meantime, try to get your husband to read the same information that you have read, to learn how you can help your son to not make the unfortunate choice your husband's friend made, that led to his circumcision, generally it is proper hygiene. Also, the rate of medically necessary circumcision is much lower than people think! I don't have the specific number, but you could find it anywhere, If you look at European statistics, they are probably the closest you will get to 100% medically necessary, and not any phony "phimosis" diagnosis, like is given in the United States!
ReplyDeleteDoula anonymous, that's fantastic!
ReplyDeleteMK, PLEASE thoroughly research this crucial, life altering decision! Insist your husband watch several videos of actual circumcisions. Once you see what really happens and what is being taken from your son, you will likely not allow your husband to have him circumcised. It is such a serious issue that it could easily cause significant strife in your marriage if you do allow your husband to have his way. Many moms and dads are consumed with guilt for circumcising their son. This could cause you to turn on your husband and lead to much difficulty, even possibly divorce if you can't forgive him. I pray you stand firm. I have read that legally it is the mother's decision to make since she carried him in the womb.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the blog post, my husband and stepson are circumcised and the 3 sons we've had together are intact. I was not about to remove part of my child's perfect body. My husband was concerned about our first being "different" but he didn't have strong feelings about it, so he was fine to leave him intact.
My sons are beautiful, and I think every time I see them naked how thankful I am that they are intact! I work with young kids at church, and if I help the little boys go to the bathroom and see a circumcised penis, I feel so bad for them and what they suffered. It looks very unnatural to me, like something is wrong, and it is.
As far as looking different, my husband has many times said that he wishes he still had a foreskin, as he realizes what has been taken from him. He would LOVE those extra 70,000 nerves in his penis! And, our boys are horrified at the thought of having part of their penises cut off. They don't want to look like Dad at all!
When you research this issue, and step away from the culture which normalizes it, it becomes very clear that male circumcision is every bit as wrong as female genital mutilation, which is done in many parts of the world. The male foreskin is equivalent to the female clitoris. Both involve taking a helpless child, who can't stop the adults, and painfully removing part of the most private part of their body.
Would any child choose to undergo such a thing? Would we want to be strapped down and have part of our genitals cut off with no anesthesia? A circumcised baby quickly learns that this is a very painful world. Circumcision causes a profound emotional wound, that records itself deep in a man's psyche. Parents who were supposed to protect did the unthinkable instead.
@MK Please oh please put your foot down. Your son needs you now more than ever to stand up for his human rights. Ask your husband to use the time between now and when your son is 6 months to fully educate himself on the whole issue. He owes you at least that!
ReplyDeleteMK- Some(doesn't happen often) men who have had a 'slight' issue with their INTACT penis don't know of the options they have other than circumcision. Some doctors don't know either... (Then again they get paid to perform such surgeries.)
ReplyDeleteExample: In the case of phimosis, a steroid cream can be used to correct that problem other than invasive surgery.
Antibiotics can also be prescribed for any "infection."
MK, if you let this happen knowing what you know, it will haunt you to your grave. Believe me, I live that nightmare. :*(
ReplyDeleteMK-I just wanted to give you information on care of the intact penis, to ensure that nothing harmful is being done [and won't be done after he is kept intact after 6 months ;)].
ReplyDelete1-Only clean what is seen. Simple enough :)
2-NEVER, EVER retract your son's foreskin. This can create adhesions and damage that may lead a(n uninformed) doctor down the road to recommend circumcision as a remedy. I believe that many of the stories of "Oh my friend's son had to have it done when he was 5, and it was horrible!" were due to improper care that was likely based on their pediatrician's uneducated advice. You must be vigilant because many pediatricians will retract foreskins (who on earth knows why???!!!) as part of their well-baby visits. Make sure and tell the doctor BEFORE he or she removes his diaper. There is absolutely NO reason to retract a foreskin before it retracts normally...and your son will discover on his own when that time is right for him ;)
Oh yeah, and the awesome post that talks about proper care of the intact penis is here: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/basic-care-of-intact-child.html
It is sad, but our society has made us completely untrusting of how amazing our bodies truly are and how, if left to function as nature intended, they can get along on their own quite nicely.
Good luck to you, Mama!
I think your reason was peer pressure. As you said:
ReplyDelete"I don’t have any friends or relatives that have NOT gotten their sons circumcised. Everyone I know has circumcised sons."
You ignored all the reasons not to (they're all over the web) but the biggest one is let him decide how he wants to be, when he's old enough, and if he's willing to change for his own reasons, then let him have that choice.
I really don't understand why you said what YOUR sexual preference is, then said how you want your son to be like what your sexual preference is.
I can see why people jumped on that statement!
Basically until there's a medical issue, let it be. Nobody removes appendixes (or any other body part) until there's a medical problem, even if the chance of a problem is high.
To the person who called her an imbred, that is incredibly rude!
ReplyDeletePeggy, I aplaud you for doing research in the first place as most don't even bother doing that but I would recommend updating your information as it is a little outdated and you and your family would benefit from being completly informed. Especially about the function of an intact penis.
In answer to your question, I have a cut partner and we will never make the choice to have a cut son. It is something we can agree on without a shadow of doubt of our choice.
Peggy Sue,
ReplyDeleteI will say, I think you probably somewhat intentionally made your post provocative, but I also think some of the comments people have made have been unnecessarily harsh as well.
The way I see it, you've bought into a system of thinking that makes circumcision seem perfectly fine... a very easy system to buy into in America.
This system sees the foreskin as dirty, pointless, and risky. In this mindset, pretty much ANY reason to have it removed is justified. You're doing the kid a favor by sparing him all the problems this troubled, flawed body part will one day cause him.
...however.. I think that way of thinking completely misses the fact that the foreskin is a healthy, valuable body part. That in most places in the world the men don't have it done and get by totally fine... that there is no foreskin-problem. It misses the point that the foreskin has been studied and found to contain many unique nerve endings, similar to those in the fingertips and lips - thousands and thousands of them. (some would say the most sensitive part of the penis). It misses all the complications and risks and problems that circumcision causes - including MANY deaths every year... but also less severe, but more common problems (1 in 10 circumcised men develops a condition called meatal stenosis, which is a scarred urethral opening that can be quite painful - unheard of in men who are not circumcised). I won't go in depth on the sexual function of the foreskin, but rest assured, that is part of its value as well.
My point is this... as a male, I feel that my healthy, valuable body parts belong to me... not to my parents. In fact, we recognize this in our culture for pretty much every other body part. Certainly women's genitals are protected.
So.. thought I don't blame you for buying into the system that our culture promotes - that the foreskin is without worth - I hope you are open to the idea that the foreskin DOES have value.
Once you realize this, you'll realize that the decision "not to circumcise" isn't about parental preference... it's about respecting the rights that every human being is born with.
Sorry for the attacks you've been getting on your comments.. though, I think you can probably guess why you got some of them, based on the last paragraph of your blogpost.
Circumcision removes the most sexually sensitive parts of the male body. It permanently damages the ability of some men to receive and give sexual pleasure.
ReplyDelete"As a grown sexually active woman, I can say that I don’t like the look of an uncircumcised penis."
ME. I would never alter my daughter's body to suit what I prefer sexually. Let's show boys the same courtesy.
"I couldn’t imagine having oral sex with a man who had to pull back a foreskin. The thought of it is disgusting to me."
ME. All men should rinse off the tips of their penises before getting fellated. That done, the disgust factor is zero. I would never alter the body of another human being merely because I believed that the alteration would make possible or facilitate oral sex. That is a decision for the owner of that body to make, not me.
"That may incense some folks, especially if your husband or children are not circumcised, but that’s why we each get to choose for our children whether or not we want to have them circumcised."
ME. This "choice" is peculiar to the USA. In most societies, circ is not an option and that's what I prefer.
"I don’t have any friends or relatives that have NOT gotten their sons circumcised. Everyone I know has circumcised sons."
ME. I came of age in the upper south, in a place and time where damn near every boy was cut. That didn't make it right. Intact is the majority choice west of the continental divide. That doesn't make it right either.
Latinos are mostly intact. There's a lot of foreskin in Texas, Florida, and North Carolina.
I predict that many sons of college professors and clergymen are now intact, because intact appeals to highly educated people who have interacted with foreign born men.
I grew up That doesn't make it right.
Wow, all I can say is wow! You admit freely that you had your boys mutilated for cosmetic reasons. I really wonder what you think of female genital mutilation. Females are lucky to be protected by law but, for some reason that escapes me, males are not that lucky...
ReplyDeleteThe only thing there is to say about the choice whether or not to circumcise is this: THEIR body, THEIR choice!
I choose not to have my sons circumcised because it is not necessary. A good portion of the world does not have it done and I have yet to hear about any medical issues that have wiped them off the planet, or at least their penises. My best friend as a teen was uncirced and never had anything bad to say (he was still very proud of his parts). The final decision came after my mom told me what it was like when she watched my youngest brother have it done. It was torture that there was nothing she could do to stop it once it started. Since even IF there would be "pain management" babies still feel most if not all of the pain it just didn't seem like the right thing to do. HIS BODY, HIS CHOICE.
ReplyDelete@Joel very well put, thank you!
ReplyDelete@ MK I have been where you are. It is not your husband's foot to put down. I know it's hard, and I can't imagine how hard it must be to actually have a child on the way. When my partner and I had this disagreement, it was in theory only.
ReplyDeleteJust remember: YOU have to consent to it for it to be legal.
One thing that worked for me was asking my partner if he could assure me that he would not allow it to be done without my consent. I.E. if I was put under for a c-section, etc. Amazingly, he agreed to that.
I don't know how your husband is, but all my thoughts are with you. And one last thing: if he loves you, he WILL get over it. You are protecting your child, and he will ultimately realize that. Standing your ground is the most loving thing you can do for yourself, for your husband, and obviously, for your son.
Best wishes!
I'm sure a lot has been said so I will keep this brief
ReplyDelete1. I don't know if the white comment was against a certain race, but if you think muslims are uncut, think again.. they circ. at age 5-6 so there goes that theory...
2. You mention it being bad if a BABY'S foreskin does not retract. It isn't SUPPOSED to! I'd hate for someone to read this blog and think they should be retracting it. My son's did not until maybe around age 4-5. I honestly don't know for sure. I don't play with my child's penis!
3. Perhaps your sons won't end up living in America most of their lives. Why don't you have any sympathy for them being adults in a locker room at the gym in say, Europe and feeling 'different'? Over here it's not normal to mutilate your child for appearances.
4. I agree about the ear piercing. I would never alter my child (either gender)in such a way without getting permission. I remember being 7 and begging to get mine pierced. I was so proud and it was rather a rite of passage type thing and I couldn't have had that experience with my mother if it had been done as a baby.
5. Bottom line about circ'ing. It's not your choice to make. You can always take that skin away but you can never take it back. I feel the same about those who do it for religion. Perhaps their kids don't want to be that religion. Let them grow up and decide for themselves.
Some people have responded here with anger, which is certainly understandable. But others, like Joel, have made thoughtful arguments which PeggySue has yet to respond to. I hope she will address those points and maybe even rethink her position.
ReplyDeleteI left my son intact for many reasons. I decided to leave decisions about purely cosmetic surgery on his penis up to him. I learned about the purpose and functions of the foreskin and thought that he was entitled to decide whether or not to give those up. I learned about the complications of circumcision (meatal stenosis anyone? it's more common in circumcised males than any disease circumcision could possibly prevent) and would never risk those on his behalf for a cosmetic surgery. Also, I don't value conformity for its own sake, so I would not amputate bits of his genitals just to "be like everyone else." In addition, my religion (Roman Catholicism) forbids it as against moral law. http://www.catholicsagainstcircumcision.org/ And I have many friends who also thought their sons were just perfect as they were born, no disassembly required, so have seen how easy it is to care for a natural penis.
ReplyDeleteI think it's bizarre that you chose to circumcised your sons based on your own sexual preference. Also, an intact male doesn't have to retract a foreskin on their erect penis. It looks nearly identical to an uncircumcised penis.
ReplyDeleteI must say, I have two sons. One is circumcised and one is not.
ReplyDeleteVery similarly, I circumcised my first son for the wrong reasons. I *once* encountered an intact penis and was confused and suprised ( I am embarrassed to say that was my reaction to a NORMAL penis?). And daddy is circumcised.
I very much regret having it done, especially now that I have my second son, who is intact.
I hope my older son will forgive me for what I have done to his body.
technically , any genital mutilation of any baby in the U.S. is totally illegal. I wish this were enforced. I wish that little boys were equally protected, our constitution grants females equal protection anywhere a law says "man" this = females too. where we have law protecting female infants from so much as a pin prick to the genitals this also = baby boys. do you think little girls who are uncut are disgusting? how bizarre. My son is intact and i'm horrified by this brutality. according to our pediatrician there is no medical reason for this practice. disgusting and heartless.
ReplyDeleteI understand how this misinformation keeps spreading - if my oldest dadughter had been a boy she would have been cut - becouse I was reserching giving birth and breastfeeding and every person I knew was cut . But like my forced C-Section inspired my cousins home birth , she inspired me to reserch circ. I wasnt really on bored - I only met 2 intact men in my life. Once I changed my mind set from "sex acts with penis" to "protecting and loving my baby" It wasnt that difficult to find out where my heart was . I thank the supportive and informitive people on the Circ debate board for choosing to educate - not humulate. They saved us.
ReplyDeletePlease don't drag Canada into this. I believe our circ rate is around 10% and falling, even though our rates used to be very high. When I had my sons, they didn't even ask at the hospital if we wanted it done, which I think is good. It's an unnecessary medical procedure, and I really don't want my tax dollars going to support cosmetic surgery on normal, intact infants.
ReplyDeleteA high percentage of men in the U.S. are circumcised, but among your sons' peers the rate will be near even. They will NOT look out-of-place in the locker room, and by the time they're having sex, women their age are going to be more accustomed to intact guys than you are(and more aware of the benefits of the foreskin). If a boy hooks up with a woman with a circumcision preference, it's up to him whether he wants to make that sacrifice- assuming his parents didn't already decide that for him.
Oral sex? Not an issue for me. I wouldn't do that for ANYONE who hadn't washed first. I know circumcised men can be great lovers, too- but it definitely isn't an improvement.
I know you did what you thought was best for your sons. By posting this information on a public blog, you've left yourself open to a lot of comments- I hope you (or someone making the decision for their sons) will look into the information provided, and I hope the people who called you names will get over themselves.
BTW, I agree about the ear-piercing thing- it's a cosmetic modification, and I wish parents weren't allowed to that before kids can ask for it. But pierced ears are far less damaging and easier to correct than a missing foreskin.
Anonymous, I haven't responded to most of these comments because they were made after I went to bed last night and most of them are repeating the sentiments of the first 10 or 12 comments. I appreciate everyone's input but it does't change how I feel about circumcision. I wasn't trying to get encouragement to change my mind. I have had the only 2 sons that I will ever have and they are both circumcised already.
ReplyDeleteFemale circumcision is not the norm here so NO I would not circumcise a female child.
And the reason I clarified that a majority of WHITE men are circumcised is because that's what the higher circ rates statistics show...that it is prevalent in white boys and not so prevalent in non-white boys. It has nothing to do with thinking that the white race is superior.
I will tell those of you just now reading this post and these comments that there have been 4 comments deleted. One because it was just useless name calling from someone who doesn't know how to express themselves any other way and 3 that suggested I want to have oral sex with my sons. I want you to know they WERE there and they aren't now. I don't usually like to delete comments but enough is enough with the belittling. It's not called for. Bringing up this subject brings ppl out of the woodwork, good ones and bad ones.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the foreskin gets in the way of oral sex. Unless I'm totally mistaken, doesn't the foreskin retract when the penis is erect? It's funny but I now look at the "mushroom top" of an erect penis as sort of odd since I didn't circ my son.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts are he can do it himself if he chooses to do so (our insurance will cover it no matter the age---I called). I feel the same with my girls' pierced ears---I didn't do it when they were infants either. Their ears, their choice. It's cosmetic IMO and I would never give either kid cosmetic surgery w/o their consent.
"The thought of it is disgusting to me. That may incense some folks, especially if your husband or children are not circumcised, but that’s why we each get to choose for our children whether or not we want to have them circumcised."
ReplyDeleteYou get to choose your sexual preference for your child? How about letting your child choose when he's older? It's his body, his choice. And yes, as a wife of an intact man (whose foreskin, btw, does not get in the way of sexual activity of any kind, as it gets very tight when he is erect; I didn't even know he was intact when we first got together. It wasn't until I saw him soft that I saw a drastic difference. But even then, it has added to our sex life, not disgusted me away from it. Perhaps you should have tried something before dismissing it; you might have liked it.), and the mother of an intact son, that one statement alone incenses me. But what incenses me more is the statement that regardless of all the intelligent research you have posted, you said you would circumcise your boys again. Without their consent.
You might also want to check out the following:
ReplyDeleteCanadian Paediatric Society
"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancy&babies/circumcision.htm
"Circumcision is a 'non-therapeutic' procedure, which means it is not medically necessary."
"After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions.
RACP Policy Statement on Circumcision
"After extensive review of the literature, the Paediatrics & Child Health Division of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians has concluded that there is no medical reason for routine newborn male circumcision."
(almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves, as the male circumcision rate in Australia in 1950 was about 90%. "Routine" circumcision is now *banned* in public hospitals in Australia in all states except one.)
British Medical Association: The law and ethics of male circumcision - guidance for doctors
"to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate."
The Royal Dutch Medical Association
http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/knmgpublicaties/KNMGpublicatie/Nontherapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm
"The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity. Contrary to popular belief, circumcision can cause complications – bleeding, infection, urethral stricture and panic attacks are particularly common. KNMG is therefore urging a strong policy of deterrence. KNMG is calling upon doctors to actively and insistently inform parents who are considering the procedure of the absence of medical benefits and the danger of complications."
Drops in male circumcision:
USA: from 90% to 57%
Canada: from 48% to 32%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (about 1% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.6% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states except one, so the rate will now be a lot lower)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%
Peggy Sue,
ReplyDeleteWhat would happen if you moved to the EU or Australia. Particularly in the UK the rate of circumcision among white, non-Jewish, non-Muslim parents is less than 10% and probably less than 5%. Your son wouldn't fit in anymore. Even in the US there are states where circumcision rates run around 20% which means if you moved there, among his peers, he would be "different".
Here's another interesting fact for you. Most teens, if they don't want to "look uncircumcised" can "train" their foreskin to stay behind their glans, just like some women tuck their hair behind their ears.
I have polled actual current teenage boys on this, as well as men in their early 20's and the general consensus about whether intact boys get teased in the locker room is that no, the boy caught looking/talking about it would be teased (or beaten). Of course, I'm just a mom, I don't have the budget, credentials, or time to conduct a real study.
Also I would like you to watch this flash animation, its an intact penis becoming erect, its not porn, it simply shows that the difference in appearance between an erect intact penis and an erect circumcised penis is basically nothing. There's no "gross extra skin" to suck on or whatever women commonly say si "gross". However the foreskin does prevent on of the more common sexual problems, which is usually blamed on the woman, "not enough lubrication". An circumcised penis the lack of moving skin, and the gap behind the glans actually pulls moisture out of the vagina.
http://secretpenis.com/erection.swf
Also if you go to this website and click on soft-hard up by the top (there are frames so I can't link directly) there are a lot of penises, mainly from the US in both states, with measurements. I want you to pay attention to the partially buried penises (and the completely buried one on page two) which is a complication of circumcision.
http://www.erectionphotos.com/frames_index.htm
The man on page two also has another complication of circumcision, because of a lack of skin on his penis the skin covered in hair from around his penis is pulled 1/3 up the shaft when he is erect. The man on page two doesn't say, and more than likely doesn't know, that part of the reason his penis is the way it is is due to circumcision. In fact, the only one on there who mentions anything is on page 8, he restored his foreskin.
You can read more about foreskin restoration on these sites. Of course you can stretch the skin so it covers the glans which can undo some of the callousing and increase the gliding action during sex, but you can't restore the nerves, frenulum, or other parts of the foreskin. Did you know that some intact men can reach orgasm by stimulating the only their frenulum?
http://www.norm.org/
http://www.foreskinrestore.com/why.html
There is so much more. But I don't want to overwhelm you, because then odds are you won't even read it. There is a huge list of information here: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html also you can get a parent-friendly package about circumcision here: http://www.savingpenises.org/our-information-packs.html
And finally read the rage from some people who were circumcised. Sure most men don't ever even think about it. I am sure if you go to the countries where they practice the more severe forms of female or male circumcision they will say that they are "just fine", or that they day they became "a man" or "a woman" was a happy day.
http://www.sueeasy.com/class_action_detail.php?case_id=258
http://www.mdjunction.com/circumcision
Haven't read all the follow up yets, but I know how to care for an intact penis. Is pretty much all I've ever babysat lol and looked up a bunch of info on it while pg too.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for his friend... it wasn't a slight problem it was a major one. I don't know if they circed him for it but he's lost feeling in part of it from what happened. But like I said, it was his fault. I'm sorry risky sexual behavior + not washing yourself + not going to a dr = major idiot in my opinion. I don't see this guy as a good example lol.
Wait wait wait? Female circ is not the norm here so you wouldn't do it? Does that mean you would if it was? My jaw has now hit the floor...
ReplyDeleteI think that it should be the child's choice. It's his body. I don't think uncircumcised penises are ugly because my son is uncircumcised and no part of him could ever seem ugly to me. He is perfect just the way he was created. I don't need to have him cut on to make him "normal." If you really think about it, it's barbaric, like some of kind of tribal thing, like the Indian tribe that put weights on their babies heads to make them flat, just because they thought it looked good.
ReplyDeleteMy son is not circumcised. It's his penis, it should be his choice to make. We decided to leave him as God made him. After all, if God wanted him to have a foreskin, he'd be born with one!
ReplyDeleteBabies die as a result of routine circumcision. Why would I risk killing my child so his genitals "look pretty"?
BTW, it's actually EASIER to care for a natural penis when they're babies. No open wounds in diapers, no fear of infection, no need to retract - only clean what is seen.
We don't remove toenails to prevent toenail fungus. We don't remove breasts to prevent breast cancer. We don't remove ANYTHING but the foreskin....and that attitude needs to change.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteYou can speak your mind folks, but name calling is being deleted.
ReplyDeleteFirst, MK, I think a lot of us have been where you are.. have a husband who was circ'd as a baby and insisted his son(s) be as well. But I think a LOT of that comes from being unable to admit that something WRONG was done to them. A man grows up wanting to believe his penis is perfect, and once you start suggesting that maybe something is wrong with it, and that you want your son(s) to be different, well, that bruises egos. It can be a process for a man to come to terms with what was done to him and see teh truth and want to protect his son(s). I know a lot of people where it took them circumcising the first son and having things go horribly wrong, and after many corrective surgeries and seeing that child suffer and having doctors say that it could have been prevented by not circing in the first place, those families have gone on to leave future sons intact. I want to echo the other comments and urge you to put your foot down. You carried that baby and birthed him and you most CERTAINLY have a right to stand up and refuse to let anyone cut a healthy part of his body off. If you think it will sink in over some time, try to get your husband to read information with you. Take him to the dr.momma blog links here, take him to http://www.circumstitions.com and show him the damage circumcision can cause and all the pictures and information about why penises are meant to be intact. Make him watch the videos. That's all it took for my husband. He saw one circ video and said "Not my son. No way. NEVER."
ReplyDeleteAs a circumcised man, he has begun to come to terms with what was done to him.. its been a process of several years.. first came being willing to leave our son intact. Then came admitting that his own penis was wrongly cut against his will as an infant. (that took YEARS to admit) Then came admitting that his circumcision did damage to his penis, that it wasn't as it should be. That was hard for him, and still is. Finally he has become open to the idea of restoring his own foreskin that was taken from him. I never thought he'd get that far, but he has and I'm so proud of him for tossing out the ego and being open to the truth. And being proactive enough to do something about what was done to him. Now he looks at our son and says "I'm so glad we didn't circumcise him!".
I think maybe your son being "too big" at birth and having to wait several months was meant to be, to give you extra time to work on your husband. For him to bond with your baby and develop feelings of wanting to protect him. Hopefully you can come together and make the decision to leave him intact together. I can't imagine loving a baby for 6 months, changing their diapers, bonding with them, and then one day taking them in to have a healthy piece of their body cut off for no reason. I hope he can't do it. But even if his opinion doesn't change, YOU can stand alone. They need both parents' consent. If you absolutely refuse to give consent and tell them you will sue if they harm your child, the doctors will back off out of fear of a lawsuit and will not do it just to make your husband happy. You do have a say. And all the people that say "I'm a woman and I don't have the parts so I can't make a decision" have their heads in the sand. You wouldn't let this be done to your daughter, to have someone strap her down and cut off her clitoris or clitoral hood. If your husband went along with you deciding to do that based on him not having a clitoris, would it be wrong then? Of course. You don't have to have a penis to know that cutting a large part of a healthy one off for no reason is wrong. Or to protect your son from harm.
MK:
ReplyDeleteIf someone insisted on cutting off your son's eyelids you would stand up and say NO. Please know that this is similarly atrocious. And that you have a say. I know so many mothers who live with this regret, and would hate to see one more join that club. If you already know you will regret it, it will only be worse when you see his bloody assaulted little penis, having known for months what it looked like unharmed. And HE will remember it. He is only an infant, but I'm sure he has touched it and felt what normal is. He will remember that being taken from him and the difference. You might not think its possible, but I have read stories of men who were circumcised as older infants and toddlers who do have a memory of before and after and of the pain and anger towards their parents for letting that be done to them. Please don't let that be your son, don't let it be you. I really believe that down the road male circumcision is going to become illegal, just as female circumcision did 14 years ago. You don't want to have to explain to your child when he is older why you let something happen to him that you knew was wrong and that became illegal it was so horrible. That day is not far away, I really don't think. Some countries have already made it illegal, and there have been bills proposed here in the US in some states to do the same. The numbers of boys circumcised in the US have dropped drastically in the past 20-25 years. They just keep dropping. Its only a matter of time before it isn't routinely done anywhere in the world. Don't let your son become one more victim in the last generation of victims. Please, know that you have every right and responsibility to protect him.
Peggy Sue- You failed. Every one of your reasons for mutilating your sons' genitals is flawed.
ReplyDeleteYou don't ever want them to feel different or out of place? Most kids in the U.S. are dealing with any one of many issues, like obesity, ADHD, diabetes, depression, etc. Are you going to inflict these on your sons so they will be like everyone else? If the majority of their friends have blonde hair are you going to dye their hair so they fit in? Ridiculous.
You absolutely did have a dangerous & damaging cosmetic surgery performed because of your own sexual preferences. Again, ridiculous.
Your vapid reasons put your sons in danger & will very likely create issues for them as they age. Cut men have issues in bed that uncut men do not. As men get older, more circumcised men are reaching for Viagra because the constant pressure of rubbing fabric on their penis head desensitizes & causes erectile disfunction. Good job! Their penises may "look good" in your warped opinion, but if they can't get it up, I'm not sure their girlfriends will be thanking you.
"As a grown sexually active woman, I can say that I don’t like the look of an uncircumcised penis. I couldn't imagine having oral sex with a man who had to pull back a foreskin. The thought of it is disgusting to me."
ReplyDeleteI want to start a new blog about (American) women's attitudes toward male bodies and how that is reflected in our practice of infant circumcision- if I do it- can I quote this?
None of my boys are circumcised. My basic reasoning went something like this: why immediately start cutting flesh off a perfectly healthy baby? My boys arrived complete and whole, as designed; who am I to alter that design, to think they should be any other way?
ReplyDeleteI'm also a Registered Nurse, and saw no convincing medical reason to inflict that kind of pain on a baby. A doc once questioned if Boy #3 didn't have phimosis; the scary part was realizing how little the doc knew about the normal development of an uncircumcised penis. Boy #3 is fine, as are his brothers -- and Boy #1 is old enough to thank me for sparing him.
Circ is NOT a white thing. It may be in the Mississippi Delta country you hail from (the home of the blues...) but not in the wider USA.
ReplyDeleteToday in the USA, the circ rate is somewhat higher among blacks than whites. The main opposition to circ comes from crunchy Moms. The crunchy Mom lifestyle is overwhelmingly white; it has made few inroads among black mothers. An exception is Tora Spigner; she's a black doula and intactivist on FaceBook.
I don't reveal all that often to people I know face to face that I am an intactivist. But when I have done so, one of the most common reactions I get from American adults is "well, your boys are not likely to ever experience oral sex." This is nakedly revealing of what really underlies the American obsession with the bald penis. It is the belief that (1) fellatio is a required part of any intimate relationship. Only Americans believe this. For most of the human race, the primary form of foreplay women do to men is the HJ.
And (2) To fellate an intact penis means a mouth full of the taste of stale pee and worse yet, smegma! This is nonsense, because a man should always wash the tip of his penis before oral sex. Responsible sex should always take place near a bath. Why should we permanently alter the male body simply to facilitate irresponsible and unsanitary sex?
I conclude that some American parents circumcise their boys because they silently believe that getting sucked off in the back seat of a car, late on Friday or Saturday evening, is an unavoidable rite of passage, a necessary part of coming of age. Imagine how ridiculous this mindset appears to the rest of the human race, lol!
Get real, people. Most middle class boys lose their virginity in an undergraduate dorm room, not in a car. And fellow Anteaters, wash before getting up close and personal with a lady. If you don't, she might insist on snipping her boys later in life.
Mk... I was in a similar situation. I was married to such a great guy but he wouldn't budge on this. So i left him. I know it seems extreme but, i couldn't stay with a man who put his own wants above our sons well being. He kept harping on me when we got home from the hospital so that is when I left him and stYex at my moms. I contacted a lawyer and was able to prevent my husband from trying to circ him if he had him for a visit without me. I didn't think he could, but I want it written down no medically unnecessary surgery(that includeS circ since no health org. Recommends it) Everyone I talked to thought I was extreme, but for my son I would do anything. I also found I sad that no one thought it that extreme that my husband kept harrassing me to have an unnecessary surgery on our newborn. Got to love society. Anyway eventually he came around and we did get back together. My son is 5 and our second son is 1 and both our intact.
ReplyDelete@MK: There are lots of stories about the boy or man who "had to" get circumcised*, but we never hear about the literally billions of intact men who live out their lives with no problems.
ReplyDelete*often because ignorant people meddled, retracting his foreskin before it was ready.
Where circumcision is not customary, and doctors know more about the foreskin than how to cut it off, the lifetime risk of having to be circumcised is one in the thousands.
Your husband suffers from what we call "adamant father syndrome" and it's very common. Sadly, one signature on the consent form is enough, but a threat to sue may give them pause. The idea that a man should decide because "he has [most of] a penis" is very sad. A circumcised man is NOT in a good position to judge the value of being intact.
@Anonymous (21:22): There is even some suggestion that the US preoccupation with fellatio arises from the reduced sensitivity of the circumcised penis - only jaws, lips and tongue can give it the extra stimulation it needs.
Anonymous (21:45): Brava! MK please note.
@Peggy Sue: you cut your son to suit your taste in penises, but what if it's not his taste, or that of the person he wants to settle down with? You'll have put up a barrier between you before you even meet!
"The procedure is much more widespread in the United States, Canada, and the Middle East than in Asia, South America, Central America, and most of Europe, where it's uncommon." That was cut and pasted from a pro-circ website. Not just "uncommon", virtually unknown (except religious). More to the point, in the rest of the English-speaking world (including Candada), they tried it, found it did no good, and have virtually given it up. In New Zealand in the 1950s it was almost universal; now it's hard to find a doctor who will do it - and there hasn't been any epidemic of foreskin problem - and the HIV rate is much lower than the US.
Peggy were you aware that the AAP just recently tried to promote female genital cutting/mutilation?
ReplyDeleteThey submitted a statement (luckily it was retracted) saying that they wanted pediatricians to be able to perform certain types of FGM at a parent's request.
So if that statement had been kept open, the U.S. decided "okay we'll remove the law protecting girls," and people started circumcising their daughters - Would you go out and have your daughter cut?
Peggy Sue, I pray your sons read this blog post and it's comments in their entirety, and I pray that you are then witness to the horror and betrayal they will no doubt feel when they realize that you mutilated them, fully well knowing that what you did was mutilation, for purely cosmetic reasons. I hope that the horror and betrayal they feel will follow you to your grave - your horrific and betraying act will certainly follow them.
ReplyDeleteI read this last night, and again tonight and am still reeling. The reasons to harm your infant boys are so that they will feel "normal" as they get older? Can you honestly say that out loud and not hear how utterly ridiculous it sounds? If that were a valid reason, then what do we tell the children with large ears, big noses, freckles, dimples, big eyes, small eyes, birthmarks, dark skin, light skin, blue eyes, brown eyes....WTF is "normal" anyway?! I hate, hate, hate that terminology. Babies come into this world as perfect little people and we go and F them all up with what we think is normal. Cutting off a perfect little foreskin blows my mind.
ReplyDeleteThere. Is. No. Logical. Reason. For. It.
Yes, my son is intact. He was born perfect and thankfully I had (and my husband had) enough sense to keep him that way.
I apologize for the name calling. I get emotional in the direction of angry when I hear someone saying they mutilated their babies, and then trying to defend it with non-medical reasons.
ReplyDeleteIf your baby had a tumor and you had it removed and the baby had to be mutilated as a result, that I'd understand. However, mutilating your children either because of some veiled thought that you wouldn't want to have oral sex with them later if you didn't mutilate them, or because your husband was mutilated when he was a baby, is nothing short of sickening.
What you've done your children will not be able to undo, and it should not have been your or your husbands call. It should have been the child's call, since it's his penis. And I guarantee you he would not have chosen to cut part of it off.
I look forward to when people like you cant do this to your children without being put in prison FOREVER, so the cycle of abuse can start coming to an end in America for males as it has nearly done for females.
Hi Peggy Sue,
ReplyDeleteI understand the conditioning of our culture. Its everywhere. The media seems obsessed with it. A reporter from Fox News,"Dr." Kelly (was that her name? dang I forget) who said, "Men don't wash themselves well. I don't care what country you're from!" Implying that men are too stupid to know how to wash their penis. She was fired shortly after her interview with Intact America saying what she said. She was clearly in favor of a penis reduction surgery on ALL infant males, "Soon we will see those numbers go back up!"
Its hard to hear that our sons have been damaged because they went through an arbitrary genital reduction surgery. Why is it easy to accept the thinking, "They were damaged at birth and NEEDED TO BE FIXED!"?
Its easier to remove cultural blindfolds. If you try.
Think about it, the human blueprint designed the prepuce organ as an integral, sophisticated member of the male reproductive system. This is the default standard. Someone had to entice you to remove a healthy body part.
continued below...
Our country once held the knowledge of a complete set of male genitals. With knowledge there is less fear. In order to compel someone to surgically alter a fully functioning penis, you have to remove that knowledge. A lack of understanding was the first and foremost variable when orchestrating a cutting culture.
ReplyDeleteWhen doctors began circumcising infants without the parents knowing what they were about to do, they literally removed that knowledge. After "informed consent" (which is a sick joke if you ask me) was mandated to prevent lawsuits, this arbitrary genital reduction surgery was propagated to "look like dad" (so dad wouldn't be reminded that something was taken/stolen from him).
People actually believed that altering the penis would prevent blindness/deafness/nocturnal seminal emissions:
*1894 P.C. Remondino says circumcising blacks will help prevent them from raping whites. [Negro rapes and their social problems. National Popular Review 1894 Jan;4(1):3-6]
* 1894 H.L. Rosenberry publishes paper 'proving' that circumcision cures urinary and rectal incontinence. [Incontinence of the urine and faeces, cured by circumcision. Medical Record 1894 Aug 11;4(6):173]
* 1900 Johnathan Hutchinson advises circumcision as way to decrease the pleasure of sex, and hence to discourage sexual immorality. [The advantages of circumcision. The Polyclinic 1900 Sep;3(9):129-31]
* 1902 Roswell Park publishes paper 'proving' that foreskin causes epilepsy and that circumcision cures it. [The surgical treatment of epilepsy. American Medicine 1902 Nov 22;4(21):807-9]
* 1914 Abraham L. Wolbarst claims that circumcision prevents tuberculosis and demands the compulsory circumcision of all children in America. [Universal circumcision as a sanitary measure. Journal of the American Medical Association 1914 Jan 10;62(2):92-7]
* 1890 William D. Gentry declares that circumcision cures blindness, deafness and dumbness. [Nervous derangements produced by sexual irregularities in boys. Medical Current 1890 Jul;6(7):268-74]
Female Circumcision FGM was practiced in our culture too:
* 1898 T. Scott McFarland says he has "circumcised as many girls as boys, and always with happy results." [Circumcision of girls. Journal of Orificial Surgery, 1898 Jul;7:31-33]
* 1915 Benjamin E. Dawson says that since the clitoral hood is the source of many neuroses, female circumcision is necessary. [Circumcision in the Female: Its Necessity and How to Perform It. American Journal of Clinical Medicine, 1915 Jun;22(6):520-523]
research John Harvey Kellogg, yes the cereal guy. He is a real piece of work!!!
Female circumcision was being promoted in US medical papers till at least 1959, and practised till the early 70's.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.noharmm.org/circumfemale.htm
http://www.noharmm.org/femcirctech.htm
If western researchers were now looking for benefits of female circumcision as enthusiastically as they are looking for benefits of male circumcision, we'd now be getting regular news articles about how female circumcision helps prevent STI's. It wouldn't mean that there aren't better ways to prevent STI's, and it wouldn't make it right.
You can also hear the conditioning when listening to bigot racial remarks on T.V. sitcoms about the "uncircumcised" penis but not the "unlobotomized", "unlabiaplastmized" or the "unmastectomized". It only re-enforces the ignorance. When you decided to alter your son's sex organs to fit your delight, you marked them with the History that unfolded this insane practice to a "normal custom". There is nothing normal about a denuded penis. Its especially NOT normal to wrap an open wound with a soiled diaper for 10 to 14 days. This kind of "normal" is a mark of ignorance.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it, routinely done, this is a "cosmetic" procedure.
ReplyDeleteWhat's next? We think our newborn has an ugly nose, chubby thighs...
"Hey doc, you think that before we get discharged to go home, we can get some rhinoplasty and lipo?"
No anesthesia? Who cares!
oh my. i feel very ill all of sudden. a point was made: a lot of people are accepting of ear piercings. if you don't like ear piercings, why would you use them as justification of something you consider to be of the same principle. i also have to say, it's grievously solipsistic analogy. i don't understand that some americans can see the horrors in FGM, but are insensitive to the subjectivity of of males.
ReplyDelete[QUOTE]I made it based on the fact that most men in Amercian society are circumcised and I never want my boys to feel out of place or different/look different.[/QUOTE]
ReplyDeleteAre boys and men seriously checking each other out in that way? Then what...do they say "ha ha, you have a foreskin...freak!" looking/feeling different is one of the most absurd reasons I have heard of. just that'my .02c
As a guy who was circumcised as an adult, I'd say that all these stories about how circumcision equals mutilation are usually wrong. Personally I do think circumcision should be a choice when boys are old enough, but it's not something that should be compared to mutilation at all!
ReplyDeleteFor me personally, getting circumcised was the best decision ever, both myself and my girlfriend loves it. It looks better and I do perform better as well.